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Talking about gender segregation on airplanes: A Voice of Israel Radio

JewFem Blog: Gender in Israel
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I must admit that I did not see this coming. The buzz that has been generated around the story of gender segregation on the airplane, which has been reported now in at least half a dozen media outlets including The Telegraph and the Australian news, and has over 14,000 hits on Tablet alone  -- wow. I'm not sure why this particular story has suddenly generated such an outcry, as opposed to many other stories about gender segregation and religious radicalism. Maybe it's more like the straw that broke the camel's back in the sense that people have been experiencing this kind of thing for a long time and are finally fed up. In any event, I've spent much of the past two days engaged in all kinds of discussions online and in person about the issue of gender segregation and religion. And I'm really grateful and gratified that the conversations are happening this way. I hope that they are happening in the right places as well, places where change can happen. At least one piece of activism: Susan Shapiro started a petition to El Al, as Allison Kaplan Sommer reports in Haaretz.

Meanwhile, here is an interview I did on Voice of Israel radio yesterday, on the Mottle Wolfe and Eve Harow Show. (It's really called the Mottle Wolfe show, but I felt the need to correct that gender inequality.....)

REB MOTTLE: MILE HIGH SNUB

What do you think?

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Comments 2

Guest
Guest - Savta1571 on Tuesday, 30 September 2014 19:44

Brava, Ilana. I've seen the article several times now, and am struck by your description of "absorbing" the insult. For many of us, the practice of absorbing it it is so ingrained that unless and until something really egregious happens, we don't even realize that there is anything wrong - and that we've been carrying a well-hidden load of pain and grief all along.

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Brava, Ilana. I've seen the article several times now, and am struck by your description of "absorbing" the insult. For many of us, the practice of absorbing it it is so ingrained that unless and until something really egregious happens, we don't even realize that there is anything wrong - and that we've been carrying a well-hidden load of pain and grief all along.
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Guest
Guest - Nathan on Tuesday, 14 October 2014 16:59

Hi Ilana,

You are on the mark about so many things. Today the Haredi world is increasingly sexo-phobic, and hell bent on making women into the unwilling psychological repositories of this supposedly objectionable erotic feeling. There is also a tremendous fear of women's strength and freedom. If women all woke up and refused to play the Haredi game, what would happen to the community?

As you are no doubt familiar, the Halacha does not forbid men to sit next to women on busses plains and other forms of public transportation. The latest Haredi craze for gender segregation is not a good reason to delay a flight for even ten seconds, much less half an hour.

However, in this particular matter, I have on numerous times found myself seated next to Haredi women who refused to sit next to me, and wandered about finding a married couple willing to separate so that the husband would sit with me. OK. Not my problem, but knock yourself out if that is what floats your boat.

In principle, Geder Erva is as much a problem for females as for males. Rashi says it at the beginning of Parshat Kedoshim. Geder Erva is the basis of Kedushah. Contra to the current Haredi mindset, it is most certainly possible for there to be too much Geder Erva, but there are certainly places where it is needed and worthwhile (camping trips...office parties...dancing events...oh yes, worship services!) You would be correct that in the pervasive atmosphere in the Haredi world today, a woman is likely to feel that a Haredi guy won't sit next to her because he thinks she's unclean or dangerous. I would have to concede that at some Haredi guys out there have had their minds so screwed up that indeed that is what they think. Still I hope than many serious Haredi Men or Women do not assume that a woman sitting on a plain is unclean or evil, and has no concern about experiencing unwanted sexual arousal. They are acting out the concept of geder ervah, which adds holiness.

Did I fail to mention? I am totally not Haredi. I am good old Mod Ortho, one of the last of a dying breed....

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Hi Ilana, You are on the mark about so many things. Today the Haredi world is increasingly sexo-phobic, and hell bent on making women into the unwilling psychological repositories of this supposedly objectionable erotic feeling. There is also a tremendous fear of women's strength and freedom. If women all woke up and refused to play the Haredi game, what would happen to the community? As you are no doubt familiar, the Halacha does not forbid men to sit next to women on busses plains and other forms of public transportation. The latest Haredi craze for gender segregation is not a good reason to delay a flight for even ten seconds, much less half an hour. However, in this particular matter, I have on numerous times found myself seated next to Haredi women who refused to sit next to me, and wandered about finding a married couple willing to separate so that the husband would sit with me. OK. Not my problem, but knock yourself out if that is what floats your boat. In principle, Geder Erva is as much a problem for females as for males. Rashi says it at the beginning of Parshat Kedoshim. Geder Erva is the basis of Kedushah. Contra to the current Haredi mindset, it is most certainly possible for there to be too much Geder Erva, but there are certainly places where it is needed and worthwhile (camping trips...office parties...dancing events...oh yes, worship services!) You would be correct that in the pervasive atmosphere in the Haredi world today, a woman is likely to feel that a Haredi guy won't sit next to her because he thinks she's unclean or dangerous. I would have to concede that at some Haredi guys out there have had their minds so screwed up that indeed that is what they think. Still I hope than many serious Haredi Men or Women do not assume that a woman sitting on a plain is unclean or evil, and has no concern about experiencing unwanted sexual arousal. They are acting out the concept of geder ervah, which adds holiness. Did I fail to mention? I am totally not Haredi. I am good old Mod Ortho, one of the last of a dying breed....
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